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I have an idea.
I'm not sure it's a good idea; but I'll float it.
I'm sharing it here precisely because Fr. Hewko teaches that Catholics cannot vote in this election. I thank him for preaching this truth. I think he may be the lone voice spanning all of Tradition. May God bless him for that.
Many of us will still be heading to the polls to vote in local elections. In my state there are two referenda and some local races where I would like to cast a vote. Thus many of us will have ballots in our hands, and will have to decide what to do about the presidential race. We may not want to leave the ballot blank, lest some criminal fill it in with the name of one of our enemies.
My idea is that we should write in, in Latin: Jesus Nazarenus, Rex Judaeorum.
This, and not: Christ the King.
Why?
I believe that the presidential and other races carry curses and spells, and that those who participate in them not only commit sin but come under demonic oppression - come under the curses when they consent to be ruled by the demons, via their vote. I believe that the demons actually get authority over people when they cast votes for members of the demon-acracy. This would go a long way to explain the exponential decline of America into moral degradation, over mere decades, no matter which party captures the oval office. It also explains why so many traditional Catholics are still going to vote for Trump, even after God has provided them with ample evidence that Trump is exactly the same as Harris.
Recall just how odious was the Titulus of our Lord to His enemies. They demanded that Pilate erase and rescind it. It cut them to the heart, the same way the words of St. Stephen cut them. They hate it - but more, they are terrified of it - because it is absolute Truth, and a powerful weapon against their malevolent designs.
The Titulus carries massive spiritual power. This utterance, this Title of our Lord Jesus Christ, is the utterance of Almighty God Himself. It will break curses and demonic strangleholds. I believe this with all my heart.
Hence, I suggest this idea to, perhaps, the one and only group in vestigial Christendom that might just agree.
God protect and save us!
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(10-22-2024, 08:57 AM)Scripsi Scripsi Wrote: I have an idea.
I'm not sure it's a good idea; but I'll float it.
I'm sharing it here precisely because Fr. Hewko teaches that Catholics cannot vote in this election. I thank him for preaching this truth. I think he may be the lone voice spanning all of Tradition. May God bless him for that.
Many of us will still be heading to the polls to vote in local elections. In my state there are two referenda and some local races where I would like to cast a vote. Thus many of us will have ballots in our hands, and will have to decide what to do about the presidential race. We may not want to leave the ballot blank, lest some criminal fill it in with the name of one of our enemies.
My idea is that we should write in, in Latin: Jesus Nazarenus, Rex Judaeorum.
This, and not: Christ the King.
Why?
I believe that the presidential and other races carry curses and spells, and that those who participate in them not only commit sin but come under demonic oppression - come under the curses when they consent to be ruled by the demons, via their vote. I believe that the demons actually get authority over people when they cast votes for members of the demon-acracy. This would go a long way to explain the exponential decline of America into moral degradation, over mere decades, no matter which party captures the oval office. It also explains why so many traditional Catholics are still going to vote for Trump, even after God has provided them with ample evidence that Trump is exactly the same as Harris.
Recall just how odious was the Titulus of our Lord to His enemies. They demanded that Pilate erase and rescind it. It cut them to the heart, the same way the words of St. Stephen cut them. They hate it - but more, they are terrified of it - because it is absolute Truth, and a powerful weapon against their malevolent designs.
The Titulus carries massive spiritual power. This utterance, this Title of our Lord Jesus Christ, is the utterance of Almighty God Himself. It will break curses and demonic strangleholds. I believe this with all my heart.
Hence, I suggest this idea to, perhaps, the one and only group in vestigial Christendom that might just agree.
God protect and save us!
I disagree with your statement that because Catholics cast their vote for members of the"demon-acracy", are the reason for the decline of Americans moral degradation. It would be the Pope and their new church. The world goes by way of the Church.
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[Post partially edited by The Catacombs - first several sentences omitted.]
Fyi, it may have been Michael Matt (Remnant TV) who first came out publicly with the "do not cast a vote" idea.
"The Titulus Project" post sadly reminds me of the manipulative tactics/propaganda & fear mongering of the mainstream media.
[...] ...I will not vote & those who do are evil...then please know I stand opposed this new idea.
I will vote for Trump and that certainly does NOT equal my acceptance of his entire platform, nor does it mean I will ever agree with his moral errors, & it certainly doesn't mean I'm
oppressed by a demon, under a curse or a spell... as shamefully posted on this site.
If others choose not to vote, that is their prerogative, but please stop wrongly shaming or guilting those who disagree with you with public insults and ridiculous accusations.
Let us instead unite in prayer for our political leaders. I pray for Trump daily, as well as all within our government. Yes, much is utterly corrupt; but prayers must be offered
so the Divine Answer will be given.
Even if ONE child is saved from being sex-trafficked across our Southern border, or only ONE preborn human is saved from the horror of abortion, because I cast
a vote for Trump, then that is the best I can do, temporally, with what is before me. I believe Trump will do a good bit better than Harris. I am voting for this bit of good.
Please consider reading Abp. Vigano's "Open Letter to American Catholics on the Eve of the 2024 Presidential Election".
I can't seem to attach it in pdf.
May God have mercy on us and bless us with good and holy leaders!
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Let me begin by saying I realize how contentious an issue this is.
I completely understand the gravity of taking the position to not cast a vote in the upcoming presidential election.
It 'feels' as if doing so would guarantee a win by the [Communist] Democratic Party.
I also completely understand that this is a deeply personal issue for most. I found, when confronted with this idea of not voting for a pro-abortion candidate, it seems like there were so many other weighty issues beyond abortion that are at stake.
But we are being asked to vote for a man who advocates for some level of abortion. The same abortions that were utilized for the covid vaccines, which was why, on a spiritual level, we could not take them.
After a great deal of reflection and prayer it seems - to me - if I examine the issue thru the lens of the Faith, I cannot help but arrive at the conclusion that we sometimes forget what the Church has always taught about political authority and power. As the Catholic theologian and historian, Eusebius noted, the Christian emperors acknowledged that their power came from above, not from human or pagan sources. This has long been the Catholic perspective: that the power of Caesar, as a human ruler, originates from God above, not from human authority. We all know that voting is 'human authority'...
Our Lord said as much to Pontius Pilate, taken from John 19:
Quote:6 When the chief priests, therefore, and the servants, had seen him, they cried out, saying: Crucify him, crucify him. Pilate saith to them: Take him you, and crucify him: for I find no cause in him. 7 The Jews answered him: We have a law; and according to the law he ought to die, because he made himself the Son of God. 8 When Pilate therefore had heard this saying, he feared the more. 9 And he entered into the hall again, and he said to Jesus: Whence art thou? But Jesus gave him no answer. 10 Pilate therefore saith to him: Speakest thou not to me? knowest thou not that I have power to crucify thee, and I have power to release thee? 11 Jesus answered: Thou shouldst not have any power against me, unless it were given thee from above.
This election, as the with the last one, where most argue by the numbers Trump should have won, is in God's hands. It seems God did not allow Trump to retain what most believe was his rightful place in the Office of the President in 2020. God does not 'need' us to vote to place in power who He will. It is only for us to keep the Commandments and keep the Faith - no compromise.
In the darkness of our days, it is easy to forget in the frenzy constantly whipped up right now that Our Lord is in control. Nothing happens that is not allowed or willed by Him. Perhaps we are victims of being repeatedly told that we control the outcome of our elections so much that we have believed it. But I think that stopped being true some time ago.
I have great respect for Archbishop Vigano but I am not sure he is right on this topic. Perhaps he is. We will know at our judgement.
What we do know is that abortion is a violation of the Commandment, Thou Shalt Not Kill. How many times in non-election years we hear Catholics and Protestants both bemoaning that our country is ripe for punishment for the great crime of abortion. If the Catholics especially, support someone who disregards the Commandments, would we not rain down more punishment on our poor country? And our hopes for a revival will only lead to a worsening of our present condition? Did God not punish the Israelites over and over when they disregarded His laws? It is almost like Eve in the garden, given false promises if she disobeyed what God commanded her.
And I say sincerely, there was never an intention of shaming or offending anyone by allowing the OP. To me, their comments were not a judgement against anyone but a worry. We are all trying to help each other get to heaven. To remind each other of the Church's teaching, of Our Lord's words on this matter is not meant to be hurtful, only helpful.
When the SSPX's treachery and compromise in 2012 was brought to my attention by a now-good friend, I didn't believe them. But I am ever grateful they risked my irritation to tell me, to let me know of the real situation. I hope that what has been written here, and elsewhere on the Catacombs, is taken in that same spirit. We all have free will.
May Our Lady of Fatima guide our hearts and minds so that we may always be found faithful.
"So let us be confident, let us not be unprepared, let us not be outflanked, let us be wise, vigilant, fighting against those who are trying to tear the faith out of our souls and morality out of our hearts, so that we may remain Catholics, remain united to the Blessed Virgin Mary, remain united to the Roman Catholic Church, remain faithful children of the Church."- Abp. Lefebvre
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Can a Catholic vote for someone who is pro-life, but not Catholic?
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(10-24-2024, 06:31 PM)Ruthy Wrote: Can a Catholic vote for someone who is pro-life, but not Catholic?
My understanding is, yes. As long as there is no intention or support for breaking of the Natural Law. I believe Leo XIII spoke of this but I don't have a quote handy.
"So let us be confident, let us not be unprepared, let us not be outflanked, let us be wise, vigilant, fighting against those who are trying to tear the faith out of our souls and morality out of our hearts, so that we may remain Catholics, remain united to the Blessed Virgin Mary, remain united to the Roman Catholic Church, remain faithful children of the Church."- Abp. Lefebvre
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I would like to post an article written by Father Peter Scott back in 2004 when the SSPX was still faithful. It is published in the book The Best of Questions and Answers from the Angelus, 2009. I have bolded some especially relevant points.
I would just like to add that Trump has accepted a Scapular and a statue of St. Michael. There is reason to hope that he might someday convert to Catholicism.
"Q Is it a mortal sin to vote for a pro-abortion candidate?
The casting of a vote can be a virtuous act, even in our modern liberal democracies, in which so much of the system is not only opposed to our holy religion but even to the natural law itself. However, for a vote to be a virtuous act, it must be directed towards its end, namely, the common good. Consequently, it is in itself a grave sin to vote for an unworthy candidate, for the choice of a candidate whose life or policies are immoral is an illicit cooperation in bringing about a grave evil to society. There can be no doubt that abortion, the murder of the innocent, is one of the greatest evils afflicting modern society, and that it is crying out to heaven for venegeance. Consequently, there cannot in itself be any justification for voting for any candidate who is pro-abortion or in any way tolerant of abortion.
The question arises, however, as to whether there could be sufficient reason to vote for a candidate who might consent to some abortions, for example, to avoid a more serious evil, such as to defeat a candidate who might be in favor of homosexual marriages or who might actively promote abortions or some other great evil, such as unjust wars.
The theologians answer that the act of casting a vote is a material cooperation in the evil that that candidate might cause, and not necessarily a formal cooperation (cf. Prummer, III, S604). This means that the person who casts the vote is not necessarily directly responsible for what a bad candidate might do once elected, even if he foresaw that he would perform some evil deeds. In such cases of material cooperation, the Church allows the application of the principles of the indirect voluntary. It is permissible, since the act of casting a vote is not in itself bad, and the end is good, namely, to avoid a greater evil. However, there must be a very grave reason to justify such material cooperation, and all scandal would have to be avoided. This could be the case, for example, if a person were to vote for a Protestant whose platform was in general in accordance with the natural law, but who might have some false principles concerning divorce or the funding of Catholic schools, or on some environmental issue. In such a case, it would be permissible to choose the lesser evil and to vote for a candidate who is not entirely good, on the condition that there is a very grave reaon, namely, to avoid a much greater evil.
The question here is whether there could ever possibly be such a grave reason that could justify a person's voting for a pro-abortion candidate. Is it possible for there to be a greater evil that could justify such a participation in this evil of abortion, even only a material participation? I cannot conceive that this could be possible, for abortion is such a perverse and horrible crime.
It is possible to conceive of a greater evil that would alllow one to vote for a candidate who would accept (unwillingly) abortions under certain exceptional circumstances such as rape, for this is frequently done in order to prevent the election of a candidate who is positively pro-abortion. This is a frequent occurrence and is certainly permissible. However, it is inconceivable that a Catholic would vote for a politician who is positively pro-abortion simply because he likes his tax scheme or his social policies. In such an instance there would be no proportion at all, and it would certainly be a grave sin, even if the intention were only for a material cooperation.
If in general it is narrow-minded to be a single-issue voter, this certainly does not apply to the abortion question. The common good absolutely and necessarily requires the abolition of abortions from public life, and it is of such overwhelming importance for the good of society that no person could be considered imprudent for voting on the basis of this question alone. "
Taken from The Best of Questions and Answers from the Angelus, 2009, pp 283-285
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(10-25-2024, 09:26 AM)PaxetBonum2024 Wrote: I would like to post an article written by Father Peter Scott back in 2004 when the SSPX was still faithful. It is published in the book The Best of Questions and Answers from the Angelus, 2009. I have bolded some especially relevant points.
I would just like to add that Trump has accepted a Scapular and a statue of St. Michael. There is reason to hope that he might someday convert to Catholicism.
"Q Is it a mortal sin to vote for a pro-abortion candidate?
The casting of a vote can be a virtuous act, even in our modern liberal democracies, in which so much of the system is not only opposed to our holy religion but even to the natural law itself. However, for a vote to be a virtuous act, it must be directed towards its end, namely, the common good. Consequently, it is in itself a grave sin to vote for an unworthy candidate, for the choice of a candidate whose life or policies are immoral is an illicit cooperation in bringing about a grave evil to society. There can be no doubt that abortion, the murder of the innocent, is one of the greatest evils afflicting modern society, and that it is crying out to heaven for venegeance. Consequently, there cannot in itself be any justification for voting for any candidate who is pro-abortion or in any way tolerant of abortion.
The question arises, however, as to whether there could be sufficient reason to vote for a candidate who might consent to some abortions, for example, to avoid a more serious evil, such as to defeat a candidate who might be in favor of homosexual marriages or who might actively promote abortions or some other great evil, such as unjust wars.
The theologians answer that the act of casting a vote is a material cooperation in the evil that that candidate might cause, and not necessarily a formal cooperation (cf. Prummer, III, S604). This means that the person who casts the vote is not necessarily directly responsible for what a bad candidate might do once elected, even if he foresaw that he would perform some evil deeds. In such cases of material cooperation, the Church allows the application of the principles of the indirect voluntary. It is permissible, since the act of casting a vote is not in itself bad, and the end is good, namely, to avoid a greater evil. However, there must be a very grave reason to justify such material cooperation, and all scandal would have to be avoided. This could be the case, for example, if a person were to vote for a Protestant whose platform was in general in accordance with the natural law, but who might have some false principles concerning divorce or the funding of Catholic schools, or on some environmental issue. In such a case, it would be permissible to choose the lesser evil and to vote for a candidate who is not entirely good, on the condition that there is a very grave reaon, namely, to avoid a much greater evil.
The question here is whether there could ever possibly be such a grave reason that could justify a person's voting for a pro-abortion candidate. Is it possible for there to be a greater evil that could justify such a participation in this evil of abortion, even only a material participation? I cannot conceive that this could be possible, for abortion is such a perverse and horrible crime.
It is possible to conceive of a greater evil that would alllow one to vote for a candidate who would accept (unwillingly) abortions under certain exceptional circumstances such as rape, for this is frequently done in order to prevent the election of a candidate who is positively pro-abortion. This is a frequent occurrence and is certainly permissible. However, it is inconceivable that a Catholic would vote for a politician who is positively pro-abortion simply because he likes his tax scheme or his social policies. In such an instance there would be no proportion at all, and it would certainly be a grave sin, even if the intention were only for a material cooperation.
If in general it is narrow-minded to be a single-issue voter, this certainly does not apply to the abortion question. The common good absolutely and necessarily requires the abolition of abortions from public life, and it is of such overwhelming importance for the good of society that no person could be considered imprudent for voting on the basis of this question alone. "
Taken from The Best of Questions and Answers from the Angelus, 2009, pp 283-285
Welcome to the Catacombs, Paxet Bonum!
Thank you for including Fr. Scott's answer to this question. It appears to support what Fr. Hewko and others have said regarding this particular presidential election. Specifically where Fr. Scott states the following:
Quote:However, it is inconceivable that a Catholic would vote for a politician who is positively pro-abortion simply because he likes his tax scheme or his social policies. In such an instance there would be no proportion at all, and it would certainly be a grave sin, even if the intention were only for a material cooperation.
What we do know about Trump's - and by extension, his running mate J.D. Vance - stances on the abortion and IVF issues is that there has been much back and forth over the last years. For this election, this is where things seem to have settled:
From this article, Trump’s continued soft-on-abortion strategy can only hurt him on Election Day:
Quote:... recent polling data indicates that a growing number of American Christians—41 million according to a survey by George Barna—are thinking of sitting out the election.
As Newsweek put it:
Quote:The decline in Trump’s support among Christian and evangelical groups comes as the former president faces widespread criticism from these movements for his wavering stance on abortion during this campaign. Trump has repeatedly downplayed the importance of abortion, stating that it is no longer a ‘big factor’ in elections and predicting it will become ‘a very small issue’ in this year’s vote.
As one commentor summarized,
Quote:Trump not only supports but has enthusiastically expressed his support for ...
1) the typical abortion "exceptions"
2) permitting abortions < 16 weeks (the vast majority of them)
3) keeping the abortion pill legal
4) vowing to protect womens' "reprodutive rights" (implying they have some abortion rights ... rendering any restrictions mostly pragmatic in nature rather than principled)
5) promising to veto any federal bans on abortion
6) promising to fund iVF (which leads to many abortions)
Pope Pius XII, in his 1948 Address to Parish Priests, wrote the following:
Quote:In the present circumstances, it is a strict obligation for all those who have the right to vote, men and women, to take part in the elections. Whoever abstains from doing so, in particular by indolence or weakness, commits a sin grave in itself, a mortal fault. Each one must follow the dictate of his own conscience. However, it is obvious that the voice of conscience imposes on every Catholic to give his vote to the candidates who offer truly sufficient guarantees for the protection of the rights of God and of souls, for the true good of individuals, families and of society, according to the love of God and Catholic moral teaching.
All that being said, we know that God will allow us the President He wishes us to have (and hopefully not the one we deserve!). But even if we could vote unabashedly for Trump, there are many signs that nefarious operations are underway that may disturb an honest voting process. For example:
Or this from today's news:
My point is that, truly, God is in control. He could give us another four years of Trump. Or he could give us another four years of what will not doubt be a truly deplorable presidency under the coup-produced Harris.
Again, despite the illusion of control with our voting, we don't really have it. Theology aside, we saw that we didn't have 'control' after the mysterious halting of voting in the middle of the night during the 2020 election. If anything should have cemented us in that understanding, it was the 2020 election.
But as you say, Paxet, there is hope for Trump's conversion!
This last action, posting the prayer of St. Michael, is the most significant to me as these were not gifts he graciously accepted, such as an image of Our Lady, the Scapular, etc. This was the reposting of a Catholic prayer. May many blessings, particularly that of conversion, be the result.
Our Lady of Fatima, pray for us.
"So let us be confident, let us not be unprepared, let us not be outflanked, let us be wise, vigilant, fighting against those who are trying to tear the faith out of our souls and morality out of our hearts, so that we may remain Catholics, remain united to the Blessed Virgin Mary, remain united to the Roman Catholic Church, remain faithful children of the Church."- Abp. Lefebvre
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Most of the time when God is trying to speak with us, we can't hear Him because there's just too much noise.
And when it comes to a lack of understanding our basic catechism, in this case, that too much noise is coming from a lot of empty barrels.
Sometimes, God even speaks with us through His Providence; but most of the time, we're not paying attention, or just too busy to notice.
Is it just coincidental, or mere chance that this election happens to fall right on the heels of the great solemnity of Our Lord's Kingship?
Some good soul on another forum posted the exact words that've been floating around my mind about this issue for some time now.
An issue, btw, which pits Catholics vs. Catholics arguing about the application of the Natural Law! ...that sure has the devil's hoof-prints all over it.
So, on this up-coming feast of Christ the King, when we're singing hymns, or shouting Viva Cristo Rey! behind the banner of Christ's social kingship ...
Here are some thoughts to ponder about those principles of this feast which seem lost on many so-called traditional prelates, laity and other "lesser-evil" proponents:
Quote: … for Catholics, there is no separation between faith and politics. The Church teaches that everything—whether religious or political—must be ordered toward God and His laws. The idea that politics operate on a separate plane, where compromise with evil is acceptable, directly contradict Catholic teaching on the Kingship of Christ. Pope Pius XI condemned the separation of Church and State in Quas Primas, affirming that Christ must reign not only in private lives but also in public life and governments.
Catholics cannot adopt a purely "practical" approach in politics when it involves compromising on moral absolutes, such as life, marriage, or the protection of God's law. To "make lemonade from lemons" by choosing lesser evils in politics is still choosing evil. God does not allow us to compromise with what is objectively sinful under the guise of pragmatism. As St. Thomas More (whose loyalty to God came before loyalty to a corrupt ruler) demonstrated: true obedience to authority is always subject to the higher obedience of God's law. This means that Catholics must reject political compromise that permit or enable sin, just as they must reject compromise in religious matters.
Furthermore, the argument that politics are inherently corrupt and, therefore, Catholics can compromise, neglects the truth that governments—no matter how flawed—must still align themselves with the moral law. The separation of Church and State is not Catholic teaching; and to endorse such compromise means surrendering the social Kingship of Christ. As Catholics, our duty is to reject any political order that tolerates sin, not to engage with it under the pretense of "practicality." In essence, compromising with evil in politics is no different than compromising in matters of faith—it is a violation of God's law.
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(10-24-2024, 02:43 PM)Stone Wrote: This election, as the with the last one, where most argue by the numbers Trump should have won, is in God's hands. It seems God did not allow Trump to retain what most believe was his rightful place in the Office of the President in 2020. God does not 'need' us to vote to place in power who He will. It is only for us to keep the Commandments and keep the Faith - no compromise. In the darkness of our days, it is easy to forget in the frenzy constantly whipped up right now that Our Lord is in control. Nothing happens that is not allowed or willed by Him. Perhaps we are victims of being repeatedly told that we control the outcome of our elections so much that we have believed it. But I think that stopped being true some time ago.
This beautifully worded paragraph embodies the true spirit of my proposal.
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