Pope Francis Interview: Benedict is a saint

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Pope Francis : "I have already signed my resignation in case of medical impediment"
From the "sin" of clericalism to the most burning political issues, without forgetting the problems of the Church, the Supreme Pontiff reviews all current issues for ABC

ABC.es [computer translated from the Spanish] | 17/12/2022 Updated 12/20/2022


— Holy Father, you often speak to those who are far from the Church. Aren't you worried that those closest to you might feel neglected?

"If they're good, they don't feel neglected." If they have something half hidden, that even they don't know, they are like that eldest son in the parable of the prodigal son: "I have served you for so many years, and now you take care of that one, and you don't give me any trouble." It is an ugly sin, of hidden ambition, of wanting to appear, to be taken into account (that is how it could be interpreted)… It is a bit of living belonging to the Church as a place of promotion.

— This dualism between those who are distant and those who are close can also be classified as progressive and essentialist views. His pontificate is now ten years old and one criticism that is made of him is that he has placed a lot of emphasis on the disadvantaged, so to speak, while the more traditional sectors feel a certain lack of understanding. Does it affect you in any way that certain currents historically closest to the Church believe that the same attention is not given to questions of doctrine?

— Attention remains the same. Sometimes there are positions of an immature faith, which do not feel secure and are tied to one thing, they cling to what was done before. The problem is not tradition. Tradition is the source of inspiration. Tradition is our roots that make you grow and keep going and growing and make you grow vertically. The problem is going backwards.

- In what way?

— In Italian I call it 'indietrismo': «No, it's better to be as it was done before», «it's safer», «don't take risks». That going backwards. And the Letter to the Hebrews says: "We are not people who go backwards, but forwards." The sin of going backwards for safety. And I think that happens in the Church.

- To the future. A musician said that tradition is the guarantee of the future. And another, that tradition is the living faith of the dead; but traditionalism is the dead faith of the living. Tradition should pull you up , it makes you grow.

— Ortega y Gasset wrote that he liked the past precisely because it is past and the problem lies with those who want to turn the past into the present.

— The past inspires you in the present. What I mean is that trying to package everything doesn't work. Faith develops, grows, and morality grows, but naturally not in any sense. Vincent de Lerins said that this development has to be 'ut annis consolidetur, dilatetur tempore, sublimetur aetate'. In other words, in such a way that it consolidates as it grows, becomes broader over time and much finer over the years.

— When you were a cardinal, you said: "I try to be faithful to the Church, but always open to dialogue."

— Without horizon you cannot live. You must have the roots of faith well established, but with a horizon to grow . If not, there would be no freedom, there would be no Christian freedom .

— February also marks the tenth anniversary of the resignation of Benedict XVI.

— I visit him frequently and I come out edified from his transparent look. He lives in contemplation... he has a good mood, he is lucid, very alive, he speaks softly but he follows your conversation. He admires his intelligence. He is a great.

— What do you appreciate most about Benedicto?

—He is a saint. He is a man of high spiritual life.

— When we see recent photos of Benedict, at 95 years of age, the inevitable reflection arises that it would have been extremely difficult for him to govern the Church if he had not resigned.

—The futures always deceive, so I don't get involved...

— Will the statute of the emeritus pope be left tied and well defined?

— No. I didn't touch it at all, nor did the idea of doing it come to my mind . It will be that the Holy Spirit has no interest in me taking care of those things.

— You have included several women in high positions, but there is still none as the number one department...

- It is true. But there will be . I have one in view for a department that will be vacant in two years. Nothing prevents a woman from leading a department in which a lay person can be prefect.

- What does it depend on?

— If it is a dicastery of a sacramental nature, it must be presided over by a priest or a bishop. Although there it is discussed whether the authority comes from the mission, as Cardinal Ouellet maintains, or from the sacrament, as Rouco Varela maintains. It is a beautiful discussion between cardinals, a matter that theologians continue to discuss.

— Benedict XVI began to meet with victims of abuse and you have continued. I imagine that is the most difficult part of your task.

— It is very painful, very painful. They are people destroyed by someone who should have helped them mature and grow. That is very hard. Even if there was only one case, it is monstrous that the person who has to take you to God destroys you on the way. And on this there is no negotiation possible.

"There is no possible negotiation against abuse, they are destroyed people"

— After one of those meetings, he decided to reopen a case of abuse in Spain, at the Gaztelueta school.

— The victim told me his story and that he had not received a response from the trial in the Vatican. I got here and had it checked. There had been a trial, but since she had had a civil sentence, they were content with that and did not proceed. For this reason, I appointed a court, presided over by the Bishop of Teruel, and things are underway. I can't tell you what stage he is in, but I know he is in good hands. But he is not the only reopened . There is another case of a Spanish priest. The process was started, but it had gotten lost. I passed it to the Spanish Rota. And the president of the Rota is taking it forward. We have reopened them without any scruples.

— Do you think that society will perceive that the Church is finally acting with total decision to stop and prosecute cases of abuse? Do you think the Church will be 'forgiven'?

— The fact of walking on this is a good path. Now, it does not depend only on us whether or not forgiveness is achieved. But there is one thing I want to say. You have to interpret the problems with the hermeneutics of his time. As we do with slavery. At that time they argued about whether slaves had souls or did not have souls. It is unfair to judge an ancient situation with today's hermeneutics. The hermeneutic of before was to hide everything, as unfortunately is now done in some sectors of society, such as families and neighborhoods.

— Do you have any explanation for the cover-ups of other times?

— It is a progress of humanity that is taking charge more and more of moral questions that do not have to subsist like this. Become more and more aware. And that was the courage of Benedict. According to statistics, between 42 and 46% of abuses occur in the family or neighborhood, and are covered up. We did the same thing until the scandals broke out in Boston around 2002. Why? My explanation is this: there is not enough strength to face them. Be careful, I understand that they do not know how to face them, but I do not justify them . First the Church covered them up, then it had the grace to widen its gaze and say "no", up to the last consequences.

- Don't you feel frustrated when you see that this battle is progressing slowly?"

—I see that unfortunately it is a very great evil, and that we are facing it 'little bit'… We are taking these steps, thank God. But there is a point of abuse that remains a mystery to me.

— Which one?

— Video-pornography with minors, which is produced live. Where is it produced? In what country? It is not known. Who covers all that? There it would be necessary to call the attention of those responsible for society. With what coverage do the groups that film child pornography continue to operate? It's a cry for help.

— What do you say to those who see their faith shake when new cases come to light?

— It is positive that you are scandalized by this. That leads you to act to avoid it, to put your contribution. It doesn't scare me . If faith falters it is because it is alive. If not, you wouldn't feel anything.

— I imagine that all kinds of issues pass through the Pope's table, forcing him to make very varied decisions. What advice would you leave to his successors?

— I would tell them not to make the mistakes that I did, period and nothing more.

— Are there many errors?

— Yes there are, yes.

— It is striking that you have chosen new cardinals from very different origins, who know little of each other. Don't you think this will make the work of future conclaves more difficult?

-Clear! Yes, from a human point of view. But there the one who works is the Holy Spirit. There was someone, I don't know who, who proposed that the election of the new Pope be made only with the cardinals who live in Rome. Is that the universality of the Church?

— Pope Francis, a delicate matter. What happens if a pontiff is suddenly disabled due to health problems or an accident? Wouldn't a standard be convenient for these cases?

I have already signed my resignation. It was Tarcisio Bertone, the Secretary of State. I signed it and told him: «In case of impediment for medical reasons or what do I know, here is my resignation. They already have it." I don't know who Cardinal Bertone gave it to, but I gave it to him when he was Secretary of State.

— Paul VI also left his resignation in writing in case of permanent impediment.

— That's right, and Pius XII I think so too.

- You never said that.

- It's the first time I've said it.

- He wants it to be known.

- That's why I say it. Now someone will go to ask Bertone for it: "Give me the piece of paper!" (laughs). He surely handed it over to Cardinal Pietro Parolin, the new Secretary of State. I gave it to Bertone as Secretary of State.